Yes, lots of balancing needs to be done with Rebellion. We will see what 1.04 will bring.

It sounds like you have only played games where VR is banished. To truly understand the problem, try hosting one where it is allowed.

Like you, I once wanted to believe that it was OK to play with all 6/6 of the races the I paid for on ICO. I hosted a game where I allowed it. It came down to myself and two other experienced players triple-teaming a VR trying to prevent him from SB rushing - it didn't work. I'm not a pro player by any means but IMHO, on an appropriately sized map for 4s or 5s it is close to impossible to stop VRSB rush.

You mention the "tyranny of the Eradica or the devouring of worlds" - these are late game powerhouses that cannot be reached before a skilled VRSB rush. It's not that they are less powerful per se, but they are certainly less attainable. They cannot reasonably be brought to bear against a VR player fast enough.

Yes AR eradica and vail  and VL eating surgical strike tactic are very strong but VR is even stronger and all those "late game" race abilities shrink in comparison to what they can do 12 - 15 minutes into the game.

PS for Orky Rex you n need 8 labs not 5. If pj orky would be tied with actually having 8 labs i might even be fine with it

People played with VR for awhile- the result was pretty much always the same:

If the VR is in the eco slot, the other team loses, as with little pressure the VR can starting pumping out a fleet of starbases without ever having to increase upkeep.

If the VR is anywhere else they still have a massive advantage on everyone else.

VR are banned for a reason- hopefully the enxt patch will make them reasonable enough to unban.

I completely understand what you're saying, but if any faction is in the eco spot, there is a high chance for a win by that team.  For example, if each one of these teams were in the eco spot, this is most likely what they would do:

TEC R: Novalith and Titan

TEC L: Novalith and Dual SB

Advent L: Titan

Advent R: Titan and Wail

Vasari L: Titan and Strip

Vasari R: Mobile SB

Each faction would immediately go for thier "special ability" so-to-speak, some of which could counter the VR's SBs.  But, if the VR is in the only eco spot on the map (which does occasionaly happen on 5v5 maps) then the other team essentially is screwed.

I partially disagree.

TEC R: Ok

TEC L: Dual SB wont win you any game unless there are extremely few planets or your enemy is stupid.

Advent L: No doubt a early Coronata is mean but so are most Titans.

Advent R: Agreed. Killed more than one overconfident early game fleet with a early Wail.

Vasari L: Agreed

Vasari R: Agreed

After playing you last night I just can't even take this thread seriously anymore.

You misunderstand me.  If BOTH teams have someone in the Eco slot, the team with the Vas Rebels there wins.  NONE of the things you've listed even compare to an eco slot guy being able to pump out a zero upkeep fleet of pseudo-titans.   Heck, many of the things you've listed are defensive tools- not tools that will utilize the Eco player's strong economy to win the game.

You're just trying to pass off an excuse of "every faction has something big & nasty" to explain away the autowin scenario of Vas rebels in the Eco slot.  That you listed the Advent Loyal TITAN as their game-ending tool simply serves to demonstraight how full of it your argument is- the Coronata is hands down probably the weakest titan in the game due to it's complete and utter lack of AoE damage(every other titan has some form of AoE) and situational combat capabilities.

The only other thing on your entire list which has real consistent game-ending potential in the eco slot is Strip- and even that pales i ncomparison to the potency of jumping starbases.

Also another rarely discussed point:  The strong titan & jumping starbases aside, there's  another way Vasari Rebels are a leg up on many factions:  Most new factions have a couple crappy "dead" techs.  Not so for the Vasari Rebels.  All of their armor/shield/weapon techs are amazing(all that hull & armor from a single tech? 20% more PM damage? Shield mitigation on a non-advent tech? all amazing), their combat-buff techs are all easily and consistently applied(Jumping into a well & having allies are easy conditions to meet), and they have a few great utility/mobility techs as well.  Nothign super situational either- all pretty consistent. 

 Not to mention the Vasari went INTO rebellion from trinity as the strongest race.

By contrast  Most other factions with absolute bombs(take the advent rebels for instance), have a few bombs keeping them viable and that's about it.  The Advent Rebels suffer from the same issues that make the advent Loyals UP, but are kept viable pretty much entirely because Wail and Eradica are a bit OP.  The Vasari rebels o nthe other hand have an even more overpowered mechanic AND a solid core kit from previous game AND each and every one of their new techs is very useful.  They pretty much got the best of both worlds.

While people only generally talk about jumping starbases, it certainly contributes to the reason that Vas Rebels are unilaterally banned that pretty much every facet of their kit is good- none of it suffering from being particularly situational.

I'd like to wrap up this point by saying that realistically speaking this is not a bad thing- this should be the ideal other race's designs strive for(all new techs useful and reliable).  But the simple fact of the matter is that as long as many faction's techs don't live up to this ideal, this becomes one more significant advantage the Vas rebels have over almost everyone else.

Ok, I wrote a massive paragraph, then accidentally deleted it, so long story short, I love VR, I never use VR starbase jump ability, I only make SB's on key planets, and I love to steamroll with titan and supporting fleet.